Curse

Amras · Apr 03, 2006, 10:43 AM // 10:43

I have a question regarding how many monks we should have. We are no top players, pretty much noobs tbh. What would be the best for low-ranked guilds, 3 monks (2 boon prots + infuser or woh) or 2 monks (2 boon prots). I have considered both, and both has pro's and contra's. With 3 monks, you lose an offensive slot, lowering your dps, making it easier for the other's team monks to heal/prot. If u have a runner too, who isn't participating in the battle for 75%, u only have 4 offensive slots. My plan is to run 2 warriors. I'd like to have some shutdown/edenial for the enemy monks too. To get both monks down, you will need 2 e-surgers (yes I want e-surgers

). Then I have 8 positions filled, but without a water ele slowndown (I think that's called snare). You see my problem here?

Please anyone give advice.

Thom · Apr 03, 2006, 10:54 AM // 10:54

If you are noobish, run a low skill monk backline. ProtBonder, BoonProt and Healer grouping will give you something relatively fool proof. Your BoonProt should be your best healer and the healer for the offensive side of your splits. This build won't win you any awards, but it will keep other noob teams from doing substancial damage.

Amras · Apr 03, 2006, 10:58 AM // 10:58

Thanks for the advice. Should I go for 1 e-surge, runner and water ele or 2 e-surgers, runner or 2 e-surgers, water ele with armor of mist, making him a runner?

dansamy · Apr 03, 2006, 02:39 PM // 14:39

Don't run a bonder in GvG. You can, but it's risking one almost useless character if you come up on an elemental spike or a degen build with only one warrior. We currently run one "half-boon" prot, one boon prot, one infuser. My build is mostly prot spirit and restore condition spammer unless we need the help of an additional boon prot. Then I put up boon and help with healing until the pressure is relieved.

tafy69 · Apr 03, 2006, 07:32 PM // 19:32

You cant go wrong with 2 boon prots and a WoH monk.

Billiard · Apr 03, 2006, 07:54 PM // 19:54

I think for newer folks a three player defense is best. This can be 3 monks as Maya and tafy have suggested above, or you can also include a Heal Party spamming E/Mo who might have some wards or water snares in addition to a little offensive power (orb & strike or maybe gale).

My experience with really new folks is that a two monk backline usually cannot hold up long enough for them to figure out how to drop many folks on the other team. That plus the fact that a lot of new folks are really bad at self-preservation makes it really hard on two monks - even when they themselves are somewhat experienced.

Extreme Days · Apr 03, 2006, 08:13 PM // 20:13

3 monks is best.. it allows defense to make up for the mistakes that offense makes (over extending, frenzy while 2 or 3 ppl are attacking you, running away from warriors and getting crit damages, or just standing there)

i believe until your guildies get xp with pvp then 3 monks is the best.

Ensign · Apr 03, 2006, 08:57 PM // 20:57

My experience is that it's much, much more difficult for a newer guild to learn how to play GvG with a three monk backline. A two monk backlines forces you to make the kinds of plays that you have to make to be successful.

Three monk backlines definitely have their place, and are strong against the types of teams you see at the top of the ladder, but I don't think you can really understand why a three monk backline is good at the very top until you understand why a two monk backline fails.

Peace,
-CxE

Vindexus · Apr 03, 2006, 09:00 PM // 21:00

I'd have to say that for beginning players you should really start off with a 3 monk backline. I'd recommend going with two Surgers and two warriors for your offense, because although it's hard to play a Surger to it's full potential, it'd be really hard to play it so poorly you don't do anything.

Edit: Oh shit, Ensign is always right, and lord knows I'm always right, so which answer is correct?!?!? :P

Clusmas · Apr 03, 2006, 09:24 PM // 21:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vindexus

Edit: Oh shit, Ensign is always right, and lord knows I'm always right, so which answer is correct?!?!? :P

Well you could have a monk flag runner :P

Thom · Apr 03, 2006, 10:27 PM // 22:27

It is extremely easy to boon incompitently if your monks are inexperienced. I suggest a bonder because it is extremely flexible (3-4 skills leaving 4-5 open) and poor teams are generally bad at responding to this oh so simple strategy. A well designed bonder will have options when bonding fails.

The number of monks you have really says more about the confidence you have in your offense. If you have a well conceived well executed offense go for 2 monks and focus on controlling the match. If you can't drop opponents due to the skill of the competition (high ranked teams) or poor offense, then build a team that can survive your opponents offense and learn to capitalize on opponents mistakes.

Two warriors, two surgers is fairly foolproof but everyone knows exactly what you are doing. I like the water runner myself, especially if you are running multiple warriors. Whatever your build, efficiency trumps all. You have 500 teams out their running WM/iB clones and most lose regularly.

Ensign · Apr 03, 2006, 11:13 PM // 23:13

Three monks will give you more success as a beginning player, but you'll get better faster running two. Take your pick.

Peace,
-CxE

Vindexus · Apr 03, 2006, 11:25 PM // 23:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Three monks will give you more success as a beginning player, but you'll get better faster running two.

So it turns our we're both right, the universe is once again in balance. In all seriousness Ensign hit the nail on the head. You'll lose more running a two monk backline, but as long as you don't all rage quit you'll eventually be better than if you'd only ran a three monk backline.

JR · Apr 03, 2006, 11:34 PM // 23:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vindexus

So it turns our we're both right, the universe is once again in balance. In all seriousness Ensign hit the nail on the head. You'll lose more running a two monk backline, but as long as you don't all rage quit you'll eventually be better than if you'd only ran a three monk backline.

I would like to echo this sentiment, so I can be right aswell.

GG Vind.

Ristaron · Apr 03, 2006, 11:41 PM // 23:41

^ My opinion as well.

moriz · Apr 04, 2006, 12:08 AM // 00:08

before running a 2 monk backline, before every battle, pray to anything that you find holy that one of them do not drop due to ERR 7. it will be a slow and painful death when that happens.

nightrunner · Apr 04, 2006, 12:32 AM // 00:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

before running a 2 monk backline, before every battle, pray to anything that you find holy that one of them do not drop due to ERR 7. it will be a slow and painful death when that happens.

Maybe not too slow

I would prefer to run 2 monks, Boon/Prot and WoH/Infuse. Then I would put Heal Party on another character (maybe an E/Mo Warder, a relitively simple build to play), and and Inspired Hex somewhere else. I like having support skills spread around the team, because it takes strain off the monk if they're not very experienced.

Parkerbsb · Apr 04, 2006, 12:36 AM // 00:36

I find 2 monks backlines more fun to play - altho recently Dii has had some trouble with running that way.

Also as many copies of heal party on the rest of the team as you possibly can

Patrograd · Apr 04, 2006, 07:18 AM // 07:18

We tried a three monk backline last night for the first time since before Christmas as the current e-denial environment seems to demand it. To be honest though, I cant say as I noticed any substantial improvement in the defensive power of the build, but this is possibly down to the fact that because we didnt have the extra offensive character we werent killing enemy threats quite as quickly as we usually would. giving them more freedom to play their game

Seems to me that offence is still more powerful than defence, and I think we might try dropping the third monk in favour of a third warrior dedicated to threat elimination/disruption, or possibly make that "spare" monk have more utility, by giving him some attack or disruption ability.

lucifair · Apr 07, 2006, 04:36 PM // 16:36

Basically, now that we are in an off season, its probably good to practice two monks as a backline for you will be facing a lot of teams who are trying to get their henchies up to snuff.

These two monks will be able to...eventually...play as a two monk backline, so you can use that option. an infuser is unnecessary 80% of the time because a lot of times you wont be facing a spike, and if you do you can usually split up on it (hall pending). also, if the spike is bad enough that an infuser can cover it, then an rof and a prot spirit will be able to cover it as well. If the spike is really good, then your screwed no matter what.

Basically, over the off season practice two monks on a two monk backline and get feedback from what they feel about it. Then a three monk backline, and see if your damage output is good enough.